"Speak when you're spoken to!" the Queen sharply interrupted her.
"But if everybody obeyed that rule", said Alice who was always ready for a little argument, "and if you only speak when you were spoken to, and the other person always waited for you to begin, you see nobody would ever say anything."
Lewis Carroll: Through the Looking Glass
Discuss the above issue with relevance to language learning within the Malaysian classroom context and our earlier discussions.
Incidentally, I take it from your previous comments that the main factors inhibiting students from speaking out are as follows:
1. noticing (peer pressure) - the fear of being ridiculed, being laughed at or a general reluctance to appear over intelligent before the instructor.
2. awareness(comfort zone)- you are more comfortable listening since it is a passive preoccupation and it does not take much except for your physical presence in class.
3. input (behaviorism)- you have alway been like that and see no reason to change. After all it worked for others before you and will continue doing so until somebody comes and changes the rules.That being unfair.
4. output (reinforcement) - you lack confidence and therefore insist on remaining silent. You will choose to be silent whenever you feel the speaker before you is more knowledgeable, happens to be more fluent and probably older than you by a century. However, you will change when you are before speakers who you think are less informed and smaller than you are.
5. error correction (parental guidance) - learning must be a silent process. You are not supposed to enjoy anything when you engage in learning. You stare at the book, the screen and the information miraculously transfers to your brains.
Oh yah... do correct me if I am wrong here. As I have always said in class, like Alice I am game for an interesting question.
P.S:
Oh common, surely you do not believe in all that. Surely after half a century of knowledge from the best minds in linguistics, educational psychology, technology, you are still not singing a song that went away with Charles Dicken's "Hard Times"?
Alright cynicism aside, how can ESP teachers make a difference? Respond to my query.
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"Speak when you're spoken to!" the Queen sharply interrupted her."
ReplyDeletethat's just a typical traditional way of teaching in classroom. a teacher can be a king or queen and impose a strict rules for their student but in this modern day, i think stop making rules in which like "when teacher do the talking and the students must listened than they can only ask question at the end of it"...this situation occured in malaysian classroom nowadays in order for the teacher to control their student from making noises in which it can disturb other classes,then.... because of this, when the students go for higher level education, they stil acted the same just like their school time (no confident)listen only and don't talk.
ESP teacher..trying to make a difference in learning language. personally, ESP teacher may sound a bit "waaahhh" because ESP stand for English for specific purposes and that's make it sound "boom boom bang" or can i say expert in the field of like engineering, medic, chemist and etc. ESP teacher can only make a difference in language learning in a specific field if they have the knowledge in that field. during my teaching practice, one of the teacher told me that he could not teach EST as he did not have enough knowledge (chemistry,bio and etc) in it. sometimes he, was frustrated as he could not gave a good answer to his students.
before i stop, in order to make a difference in learning, try to change a bit our culture in learning,stop focusing on others mistakes but try to look at the good site.
Hello everyone.
ReplyDeleteMy understanding so far of an ESP teacher is one who enters a classroom equipped with the ability to guide his/her students towards reaching specific language skills. I might be wrong, but to me, this in itself is one of the biggest 'weapons' an ESP teacher can use in a Malaysian classroom. We all know that students these days are intelligent, and as teachers, we should always give them the benefit of the doubt. I personally believe many students already know what they want to learn. What I'm about to say next might sound a bit radical (or even quite silly), but I think it's time to become more specific when it comes to teaching English. What I mean by this is we can start offering more 'specific' English lessons in Malaysian schools, and if possible even start actual whole classes with specific purposes. For example, currently the average secondary school student has an average of 6 English language periods per week. We could take these 6 periods and break them up into more specific 'units'. Like on Monday everyone will study English for communication purposes. And on Tuesday they'll study English for academic writing. And so on and so forth. Of course, if you take into account weaker students, then you can have another set of ESP classes for them, suitable to their needs of wanting to improve their grammar/speaking/reading etc.
I think Malaysian English language teachers are more than equipped to teach ESP in our schools. And I certainly think Malaysian students need to be exposed to the ESP approach if we are to improve our English.
Esther Voon 13993
To speak the truth, I have never heard of the term 'ESP' until I entered university and the first "proper" definition that I got or came across was during my 1st lesson with the lecturer. Of course, I have heard those courses like English for Business and so on, but I did not know they were ESP. So now, my understanding on ESP is that it is designed specifically for a group of people, so that they can use English to communicate in their field.
ReplyDeleteSo, I don't agree with what Esther has mentioned above. How can we carry out ESP when the students do not have the basic proficiency on the language? From what I understand, ESP is for those who already have some knowledge on the language, the course is only helping them to become expert in using English in their own field. So, if we really carry out ESP like what is proposed by Esther, do u think the students can manage it? And how about the workload and the effort that the teachers need to put on it? I am not saying that teachers are not willing to work more, just that there is a difference between General English teacher and ESP teacher. Those ESP teachers are well-trained and I even doubt myself can become a ESP teacher if I have not gone through any trainings (no offend Esther!).
Come back to the question “how can ESP teachers make a difference?”
Well, I think no matter how shy, how much peer-pressure a student comes across or how slow he/she needs to “digest” what is taught, for sure he/she has something in mind. And I think it is the ESP teachers' job to try to make them speak. For example, the teacher asks opinions from the students but no one starts to talk and the teacher starts nagging and the students get bored and that's the end of the story. Why don't the teacher starts telling his/her opinion 1st before asking the students to give him/her any feedback? Then, the students can relate themselves to what is being asked as sometimes the students really have no idea on what the teacher wants. Examples will always help (that's what I think).
p/s: Maybe, just maybe, not all of us are like Alice.... But somewhere inside us, there is a hidden Alice that we would like to be and it's time for us to wake her up =)
Oh ya, before i forgot, i always have this thought where most of u might want to throw things on me, but this is my philosophy, "do not blame the students for not opening their mouths, it is our job to make them do it" haha....
ReplyDeleteHello everyone. I suppose I didn't explain myself well enough, so let me try to clarify. According to Hutchinson and Waters (1987 - refer to slides from Lecture 1), ESP is an approach to teaching, and to me, it's something of an umbrella term to describe the methodology a teacher uses in trying to teach learners who have a specific need. So no, ESP isn't a class or a subject which students attend to improve their English. It's an approach (a good analogy would be a teacher using the communicative approach to teach). So yes, you can use ESP to teach students, or at least, students who have a specific need. And like I said previously, it's my opinion that we can also have ESP courses for weak students, but ones that focus on skills which they aren't too good in. So this means if they don't know how to order a bowl of laksa in English, then no problem, we'll give them an ESP course on how to take part in transactions (say, English for Food Transactions, EFT... just kidding). The thing is they're learning English, and it's for a specific purpose. I'm not sure how accurate my opinion is, but to me, it doesn't matter if whatever ESP thingy we plan and experiment on our students fails and falls flat. The most important thing is that we tried, and really the current General English that we have in our schools isn't working out that great either, so we teachers really have nothing to lose but our egos. Yet again, I could be wrong, so tell me what you think :)
ReplyDeleteEsther Voon 13993
As an educator myself, I find your comment to your students that they are merely echoing what their friends have said supremely unhelpful. It may be that they do share the same ideas; after all, if people didn't share common views then presidents would never get elected nor would pop stars sell any records. Ideas don't have to be unique to be valid nor relevant and I find your put down to your students unnecessarily harsh. This is especially when our role as educators is not merely to impart knowledge but also to nurture our students. You might find that creating an unduly critical and fearful atmosphere is not conducive to encouraging open discussions, the very thing you purport to be doing.
ReplyDeleteOn a separate note, using big words is all very well but I believe that when learning a language we should perfect the fundamentals before running ahead. Without a good foundation, the most impressive mansion will amount to only rubble in the end. Please check your punctuation. As a language teacher you should, at the very least, get that right and lead by example.
By the way, my comment was meant for the writer of this blog, not for the commenters. Just thought I'd clarify.
ReplyDeleteHow can ESP teachers make a difference?
ReplyDeleteThe key in making a difference, be ESP or general English teachers, is the attitude of the teachers. Very often than not, learners are not being treated as individuals but merely 'scoring machines'(not by all tachers, but we can't deny that it is happening). As mentioned by Hutchinson and Waters (1987), ESP is an approach, so if teachers have the appropriate attitude in carrying out this approach, there will be difference. Like the title of Erin Gruwell's book--Teach With Your Heart.
Sylvia Chai
17634
Basically, I think most of the Asian students are shy and passive. Most of us are not comfortable to talk in English as it is not our mother tongue. Normally we just sit there and listen to others. This is applicable to the learners who are going to enroll in the ESP course. As I understand that ESP is meant to help a particular group of people to talk in good English in their field.
ReplyDeleteSo, how can an ESP teacher make a difference?
For me, I think ESP teacher should practice more on group discussion among the student in order to get the students to talk in class. Normally, you can see that nearly every student open their mouth to talk in the session. This is the moment where students express their ideas. Then, teacher can get the students to present in the class. This is because the students will feel more comfortable and confidence to voice out the opinions in this ‘comfort zone’. Being corrected by peers in a small group is less disgrace if compare to being corrected by teacher publicly in class. No matter how friendly and nice the teacher is, there is always a gap between teacher and students. Maybe it is our own culture to be in this way. Therefore, a teacher should get the students to talk in the way they are most relaxed before moving on to open discussion in class.
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ReplyDeleteESP teacher can make a difference by designing course that match learners' need particularly in their work field since there are demand on certain language skills required in order to improve and advanced in the career wise. Of course it is not easy for the ESP teacher or instructors alone to take charge of it but with the assistance of content instructors, ESP courses might not be difficult for the learner to adapt. Well, of course ESP teacher just cannot enter class and start teaching English without a single clue of his or her learner's background. By collaborating with content instructors about the course, designed materials would be more compatible with what they need on their field.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, if ESP teacher have an insight of their work background it will be easier to discuss their field in the course rather than expecting them to speak or write something which they may already know or not. Just like what I learned in the class, adult learners that paid for the course ensure the course is worth their money and not a waste of time.
Thus, ESP instructors must have a basic knowledge of his or her learners’ background. Through commonality, a gap between instructors and learners can be bridged and learners are not intimidated in the class to speak or participate in the class.
Thus, by understanding learner's needs thoroughly only then ESP teacher is able to make difference in the course compare to ordinary English teacher.
(14187)
Sad to say, being outspoken is just not the culture at the moment. In our learning context, an interactive classroom is often not the case. I believe we have all experienced the bittersweet of teaching practice when we demand a change from the passive learning environment - but often in vain. More often than not, the elder teachers who have more experiences in the field tend to advise you that the way you teach is inappropriate and even try to convince you that your lesson though engaging, is not realistic for the actual teaching situation. But if it is for the good of our students, why not give it a try and change? Someone has to initiate the change somewhere.
ReplyDeleteAlso, blame should not be put solely on students being quiet as learning is a two-way process; teachers, on the other hand, have to walk out from their comfort zone as well and understand their students. I do agree with Esther that students nowadays are very intelligent and know exactly what they want. You have to be different, impressive, approachable yet firm at times to take charge of them. We were once students back then, holding back our fears, with our heads down, and we know what is haunting our students. The unspoken nervousness and the growing apprehension in second language learning electrify most second language learners to keep their mouth shut.
To break the ice in between, things have to be changed. I guess this is the time for ESP teachers to come in and teach in the ESP way with specific aim and goals in mind. ESL teachers who already have the experience in teaching English can always benefit from their teaching methods and adapt their skills for teaching ESP courses / subjects, like EST. Knowing that they are not experts in all fields, inter-departmental cooperation with experts in the subject matter or even their own students would better equip them in the specific topics. ESP teachers can always make a difference if they want to: an assessment on the purposes and needs of the learners could facilitate the teaching-learning process, taking learner's interest, motivation factors, learning style and etc into consideration. The close investigation helps them to be alert in designing a syllabus / methodology best suit for their students in an environment they are most comfortable with and at ease to learn.
Angeline Hii 13728
Hi, regarding the question on how can ESP teachers make a difference?
ReplyDeleteFirst, ESP teachers must try to speak simple English (but closely associated to the students’ respective fields) in order to make the lesson comprehensible for students who already have some English proficiency. This is because we understand that not all students who join ESP course have a good command of English. They might be considered as experts in their fields, but yet, they are not proficient in their language. Therefore, the reason for them to enter an ESP course is to make a slight improvement on the skill they are lacking. In this way, it is necessary for ESP teachers to make the lesson understandable enough for students because it is closely associated to the comprehensible input mentioned by Krashen (1985). According to him, it is vital for teachers to use an excessive amount of comprehensible input because this not only helps the students to advance in their language learning, but also enable students to have the courageous to express their opinions effectively.
Well, for me, another way of getting students to speak up is to conduct the students’ need analysis. We must first identify the students’ general characteristics as this will give us some ideas of how much they know (which level are they belong to) and will help us to have expectations of what they will be able to understand and accomplish in the lessons. For instance, when ESP teachers come across with students who are of a passive type, then they should use a different approach in dealing with them. Here, ESP teachers are strictly prohibited from reprimanding the students publicly as this might severely humiliate their inner feelings. Thus, to handle these students, ESP teachers should try their best to modify the content according to the students’ needs. So, don’t ever make things complicated! Perhaps ESP teachers can simplify their teaching. Besides, it is also deemed appropriate for ESP teachers to give encouragement / corrective feedback to students if they fail in answering a particular question. Here, teachers should tell the students that it’s okay for them to make mistakes at an early stage as we learn via trial and error. In fact, it is seen as part and parcel of our learning process.
Another way of helping students to express their voice in class is to implement a “Sheltered ESP Program’. Basically, the idea for designing this program comes from Weinhouse (1986). He introduced a model called ‘Sheltered English’. It is an instruction taught to students with limited English proficiency. In this program, students who are of the same level of performance will be categorized under a group. Then, the lesson will be structured according to their level. For me, placing students in such programs will definitely help ESP students to develop their competence as they do not need to compete with other students who come from the advanced or intermediate level since the class comprises only limited English proficiency ESP students. In addition, it might also possible for ESP teachers to allocate some time to work with students individually. As mentioned by Jerry in his earlier discussion, students are more reluctant to speak up in class when they are placed in a larger class. Yes, I do agree with him. Therefore, to counter this inadequacy, the best way to get ESP students to speak is to meet them personally at an agreed time. In this way, this not only gets the questions answered, but also allows students to speak up without being exposed to the attention of the entire class. However, I guess this might not work well for ESP teachers due to the time constraints they face.
Tan Yee Suan, 15395
References:
Krashen, S. D. (1985). The Input Hypothesis: Issues and Implications. New York: Longman Inc.
Weinhouse, M. (1986). Sheltered English: A Study in the San Diego Unified School District. (ERIC Document Reproduction Service No. ED 270 995).
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteGood. Looks like some of you have been catching up on your readings. Great job.
ReplyDeleteAccolades aside, as I have mentioned in class, there is little sense in teachers getting defensive when there is a real need to get language learners to speak beyond the language literalness of textbook discourse (Danesi, 1998). Sometimes it is the challenge that makes the difference. So, for those of you who feel slighted and find the need to cry "shame" everytime someone criticizes you or your students, perhaps you can come up with real suggestions based on valid research that provides solution on how to improve the state of English in Malaysia and how learners can begin to speak for themselves. That is the aim of this blog.
I am sure we can all benefit from some intelligent and constructive input from more informed individuals anywhere. After all, isn't that what learning is all about.
Hi there,
ReplyDeleteThe difference made by ESP teachers ... In my opinion ESP works as an apporach so ESP can help General English to survive and make learning be fun. Yet as it match with learners needs so ESP will surely help the learners. But then don't ever forget about General English because for me General English is the foundation in learning ESP. ESP help the learners in their area of interest but the foundation is General English.
I do agree with Esther when she mentioned that ESP also can help weak learners. Indeed when i looked back even working in hotel or even in a coffeeshop where sometimes tourist came some of them afraid to entertain the tourist. But then with ESP as their background maybe it can solve their problem as i think it can improved them in speaking.
The key here for me is teachers should think it as an approach to help them to teach better in the class. Go for the students needs and interest surely the class will be happening and fun to teach yet for me don't ever neglect general english because it is the foundation. If the foundation is strong then put everything on it, it can stand.
17627
How can ESP teachers make a difference ?
ReplyDeleteEither ESP or General English Language teachers, to carry out their obligation as an educator towards their students is the purpose of doing so. Students carry out their purposes of learning and teachers perform their lesson accordingh to their purposes. A common purpose for teachers is to assist their students to be proficient in using the English Language. Students perform their obligation in classroom settings as to cater their purposes in learning the language.
In order to develop interactive and active participation among the students, ESP and General English Language teachers must have positive attitudes as well as treating their students fair and square.Moreover, in teaching-learning strategies, widely opportunities for interacting among the students and teachers in using the language as to build up their confidence as well as for improvement. In words, more on learner-centred in teaching strategies. Teachers ought to be more creative in teaching and willing to help students in their learning process.
In developing teaching strategies , it must based on course syllabus where needs of the students are much taken into account. It caters the purposes of teaching the language where the students are being developed to have knowledge as well as be proficient in using the language.
In view of this, ESP or English For Specific Purposes comes along with English For General Purposes. The purposes, area or specific language study and target learners make the difference in teaching English Language. Regardless, ESP or English Language teachers must know how to develop active and interactive classroom settings in the process of learning.
How can ESP teachers make a difference?
ReplyDeleteBoth teachers have similar purposes on which to develop the level of proficency among their students. The difference is the use of the English language concerning field of study. It is their purpose in distinguishing the teaching and language focus in classroom settings.
In developing interactive and active participation among the students, optimistics and positive attitudes must have developed within teachers. Approachable, friendly and willingness to help the studentsin their learning difficulty prompt highly learning motivation among the students. Like business field, teachers invest their effort to teach and assist their students in learning. In return, better results are shown by the students.
Teaching strategies are developed based on course syllabus on which cater and designed for the students' needs. The syllabus content require learner-centred approach in teaching where using the language is widely used.
In view of this, develop an interactive and active learning participation among students depends on teachers' approach in teaching.The main purpose is to improve and encourage students to communicate in using English Language.
I agree with Hii YC and Tan. Teachers should have more group discussion and use simple English. Teachers need to be aware that they should avoid using technical terms and jargons in their speech. It is also important that teachers maintain eye contact (instead of looking at the ceiling or walls) with students in order to monitor students and to check whether students understand them. I think teachers need to create a comfortable atmosphere that is also conducive for learning. Students should feel comfortable and relaxing instead of stress, pressure and tense to learn. For example,having the class in the tutorial room instead of the lecture hall is a good start.Having an ideal or appropriate number of students per class like probably 15 to 24 would be good too. I think teachers should also have more activities that encourage students to use English such as discussion as suggested by Hii YC, presentation, probably role play, etc. In short, tasks or activities that are more student centered, perhaps enjoying themselves, require active participation from students and high interaction between them using English. Hopefully, this will enable students to become more comfortable and confident and thus can be more expressive, speak more often, become less shy and be more active.
ReplyDeleteSoong 15851
so now everyone is saying that for ESP teachers, they need to know their learners' needs. how about the general English teacher? don't they need to know their learners' needs as well?
ReplyDeletebasically, the only difference i see between ESP and ESL is that ESP is for those who pay tons of money while ESL does not (correct me if i am wrong). but i do think that general english teachers need to do sth as well... hehe
Hi everyone..
ReplyDeleteIt’s nice to know and learn about ESP. Honestly, I still confuse about ESP and GE. My understanding towards these two is almost the same. What I clearly know about ESP is the “specific” purpose.
Back to the question “How ESP teachers make a difference?”. Well, it is important for a student to speak in class for learning purpose. It is either to answer or ask questions even though some might refuse to speak due to some reasons. There are many reasons for students to speak as what have been discussed in the previous session. Most of all, we’ve experienced it by ourselves. However, from my experience, we are eager to participate in a conversation if we know or familiar about a topic. It’s because we know what we are talking about. Therefore, I think it is best if a teacher can start the class with warming up activity. Even it is more to approach for GE as Dr. Shanti said in the class ( sorry dr if I’m wrong), it might come out with the students to speak and contribute to the class’s discussion.
I brought out this matter as I encountered it during my teaching practice. At first, yes, they were refused to speak no matter what I’ve done. Only few students were responding. But then, I’ve tried to start the class with their responses to a word that they know the meaning. They can say whatever they want but still it is related with the topic. Then, it worked. It can help to make them feel more confident to speak. I did not try to correct their grammar while they voicing out their opinion. Most of them can contribute to the class’ discussion a lot better from the previous classes. Hence, it is better if an ESP teacher can make the classroom become comfortable for the students therefore they can contribte well to the class activity. And for sure, the ESP teacher must know what the class leads to. Then, an ESP teacher must know very well about the subject. It is possible if there are many students do not know a lot about the subject which need the teacher to explain explicitly. So, make sure the teacher can explain well, otherwise the students might feel frustrated. It was happened to my friend. He is very talkative in other classes. But, when it came to a teacher which can't explain and response well to his questions, he refused to talk during the teacher's class. Meaning that, if an ESP teacher wants his or her students to talk, it's better if he or she can lead the discussion and knowledgeable with the subject. But, make sure he himself do not do the talking all the time.
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ReplyDeleteActually, I have a question to ask here. We keep on mentioning that the needs analysis of the learners are important in the ESP. So, are we saying that the General English teachers do not really need to understand the learners' needs? I thought no matter what teachers we are, the learners' priority should come 1st? Isn't it that way? So, pls correct me if I am wrong =) what do u think?
ReplyDeleteFrom my schooling experience, the environment of language learning is actually different from other subjects taught. Maybe for other subjects like science, geography or others, it is more towards the teacher is the one who supplies most of the information and the students just passively sit down, listen, and take notes. Perhaps the students thought that this kind of ‘behaviour’ is applicable to all subjects, including the language learning, in which they just listen to the teacher, read the text given, and answer comprehension question (like what dr shanti always said). In actual, language learners will not gain anything if they just stay passive because language learning will be easily acquired with lots of speaking and language exercises needed, especially for them to develop the automaticity to react to the particular situation, gain the confidence, being a quick thinker on how and what to say next. This kind of fossilized habit is actually carried on until the students have passed the schooling period and enters the higher learning institution.
ReplyDeleteLooking at the ESP context, for me, in order to encourage the learners to speak and create the interactive ESP classroom is by immersing the learners with the more authentic contexts, for example, by using the authentic texts that related with their specialization and creating the authentic contexts in which they will encounter in real life (Chuchalin & Danilova, 2005). By this means, the learners will feel closer to ESP in which it relates with the real situation that they will face later on. Findings gained from the study done by Bosher and Smalkoski (2002) stated that one of the factors the learners do not succeed in their field is because they do not have enough confidence and having low self-esteem when dealing with the actual situation they encounter. Personally, I do belief that the findings are not only limited at the area of the study but also applicable in Malaysian environment. For me, the ESP teacher can make the learners feel more confidence to speak, open minded, dare to take the challenge and be challenged by teaching them on how to interact with the public, in which the important role of language learning comes. Instead of they are required to master in their own specialization, the so-called ‘soft skill’, such as the ability to interact and making the clients more confidence with them and be friendly with the clients is also a necessity for the ESP learners as a complementary for their knowledge and skills in particular area. Without this, they will encounter a problem in creating an effective interaction/conversation. Hence, by creating the more authentic contexts in learning, like role-play, dealing with communication strategies, and giving them the problem solving questions will hopefully be able to cater such deficiencies and thus, making the ESP teaching and learning more meaningful and beneficial. ----NOR AZMA MANAN 14749----
References:
Bosher, S. & Smalkoski, K. (2002). From needs analysis to curriculum development: Designing a course in health-care communication for immigrant students in the USA. English for Specific Purposes, 21, 59-79.
Chuchalin, A. I., & Danilova, E. A. (2005). The breakthrough of the internet to empower ESP teaching and learning at Tomsk Polytechnic University. Global Journal of Engineering Education, 9(2), 129-135.
Hi everyone,
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I would like to respond to what Yann has commented about the teacher’s role to ensure that the students speak in the language classroom. I almost agree to her point of view. Yeah, teacher should be the one who encourages the students to open their mouth- to share opinion, ask questions as well as answer all questions asked by the teacher. Say if they really have nothing to say, make them speak by asking them at least a question which only requires a yes/ no answer. Then maybe the teacher can ask more following questions based on what they have answered. As what we know, our Malaysian learners are quite passive in the classroom even though they have the intelligence. Obviously what have been listed by The Language Teacher are some reasons why students feel intimidated to speak.
Okay, back to the discussion on what should be done or prepared by the ESP teachers to make a difference. I believe that the first and the MOST important thing is the preparation of the ESP teachers in term of knowledge and expertise in the field that they are dealing with. It should be a balance between the knowledge in General English and also the specific knowledge. Teachers also should not solely rely on the text book or reference book only. But, seek advice or information from the experts of the particular field. Ask them, learn from them and reveal all the “mystery” of the field from them. Then, use the knowledge of General English to help them conveying the messages to the learners. As what I read in Bosher and Smalkoski (2002), the effectiveness of the ESP teachers in determining the objectives of the courses is dependent on their expertise as well as the experiences that they have in that particular field. At the same time, they can also help the learners to be skilled in their area of study. Remember what Dr. Shanti have always said, those learners pay hundred or even thousands bucks and what they receive from the ESP teacher should worth it. Besides, the skills in teaching are also important. Bear in mind, ESP is an approach and the teacher should be skillful enough to deal with it. A lot of people have knowledge but they somehow do not know how to convey it to the learners. So, I believe that it is very crucial for the ESP teachers to be able to convey their knowledge to the learners so that they can benefit from it. I quote what Sylvia has said in the previous comment, “As mentioned by Hutchinson and Waters (1987), ESP is an approach, so if teachers have the appropriate attitude in carrying out this approach, there will be difference”.
Nik Zati Iwani 14692
In discussing the role of the ESP teacher and the GE teacher, two issues may be of concern to all you. Of course, this is debatable. Think about this during your break.
ReplyDeleteWhile not meaning to devalue any teacher's role in teaching, it would be simpler to look at general language teachers as individuals who insist on holding their students' hands from the shallow end to help them across the deep end while ESP teachers are individuals who push their students into the deep end and expect them swim across. While ESP teachers might seem cold and cruel in that they expect their learners to perform immediately (Hymes "SPEAKING")it must be realized that when learners need the language to get on with their lives, the solution might be in ESP.
One other way of looking at GE would be to view it as TENOR (Teaching English for No Obvious Reasons). This works for those who have the time, environment and resources to make it happen. However, for learners in Malaysia, where a) the language class happens to be the only environment where English is spoken, b) a textbook is for years, and c)some teachers continue to struggle with basics in the language, maybe it is time to serious rethinking language teaching strategies and approaches. Maybe this is where learner's need come in. What do they really want for the moment? Can learners learn a language within 3-6 months in a university when schools have not been able to do that for so long? Then again, learners must use the language meaningfully in their discipline. So,coming back to Cohen's words "to the language teacher ... the succesful language learner is one who completes the given tasks and passes his exams well." Is that all that you want for your students?
Well, I don't really think that the General English teachers are those who always hold their students' hands or feed them with whatever they need. As for me, the GE teachers can "produce" independent learners as well. Of course, there are those who are really unprepared for their lessons or exam-oriented or just-teach-because-of-the-sack-of-the-monthly-payment, but there is still someone out there who are very enthusiastic with their job.
ReplyDeleteFor example, my secondary school GE teacher. Even though she WAS ONLY a GE teacher, her teaching style was very different from others. Usually, she won't give us answers when she was teaching but she provided us cues/clues. She was always prepared, knowledgeable and open-minded. Oh, and she did not really use textbook because she designed her own exercises that suit the students. My class contained 67 students and our class hour was from 7.30am to 3.15pm, so, why she could do it but other GE teachers can’t? So, my question here is, can she be consider as an ESP teacher as well when she is teaching the students GE only? Thank you =)
highlighting one individual who made a difference based on your experience does not solve the problem. Look beyond that.
ReplyDeleteHi, everyone. First and for most, I'm sorry to say this but somehow I feel that the way you summarize our points makes it bad to our side but not to yours. I do understand that you are an expert in this field which means you are also suppose to be a good teacher who suppose to know how to tackle this 'weakness' of ours. From what I understand from all these years of studying, the responsibility goes mainly to the teacher if students fail to talk in class especially in a language classroom. I agree with Yann's point that students are not suppose to be blamed for not being able to talk in class. To me, blaming students for every failure that happens in class which does not meet our expectation is not the best solution. As teacher, that is our responsibility and it is our fault if students do not want to respond in class. Maybe it's time to look at things again and plan a better strategy to make students communicate in class rather than just expecting them to talk because it will not happen naturally. Maybe it's time for teachers to stop being the 'Queen of Heart' in class so that they will be more outspoken 'Alices' in the classroom which will then lead to a better classroom environment that we expect to see one day.
ReplyDeleteNow, regarding the question about how can ESP teacher make a difference, well to me it is similar to any other classes which is never blame our students if they do not want to talk but as ESP teacher, always find a way that can tackle students to talk more freely in class without being inferior or intimidated (maybe...). Another thing that an ESP teacher can do is try to know your learners. In this way, teacher can take note on every weaknesses and every strengths that learners have and polish or even upgrade it to a better state. That's all, thank you.
hi
ReplyDeleteHow can ESP teachers make a difference?
First of all I would say that having a small number of students in a class can really help them to speak up. i know it sounds a bit difficult to be done in malaysian schools but it does work in malaysian unis. we just have to start from somewhere. There would be less pressure and competition among them due to the number of people in the class. They do not have to think twice whether their voice could be heard since the class is small and they are closer to the instructor. This somehow requires less effort from the students to raise their opinion and ask question during the class. An instructor can actually attend the students individually by asking their personal view on the subject matter. Then again the effectiveness of this approach also depends on their goal of taking the ESP classes. If speaking skill is not in the list of their learning purposes, a small class might not be useful either.
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hi
ReplyDeleteHow can ESP teachers make a difference?
First of all I would say that having a small number of students in a class can really help them to speak up. i know it sounds a bit difficult to be done in malaysian schools but it does work in malaysian unis. we just have to start from somewhere. There would be less pressure and competition among them due to the number of people in the class. They do not have to think twice whether their voice could be heard since the class is small and they are closer to the instructor. This somehow requires less effort from the students to raise their opinion and ask question during the class. An instructor can actually attend the students individually by asking their personal view on the subject matter. Then again the effectiveness of this approach also depends on their goal of taking the ESP classes. If speaking skill is not in the list of their learning purposes, a small class might not be useful either.
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"Speak when you're spoken to!" Wow… sounds so commanding and the speaker is so controlling and superior that it seems like there is no way for us to obey to that command. I understand that we, adults, do like to be forced by someone to do something. If we are forced to do something, unwillingness will emerge and we will not feel at ease.
ReplyDeleteThe same rules apply to the classroom setting in Malaysian schools and in ESP classes. Malaysians or I should say Asians, are more passive, not so outspoken and shy. We are scared to ask questions and contribute to class discussions due to various internal and external factors that we have discussed in the previous section. If we have to speak when we are spoken to, we will find it stressful.
Throughout my four years in UNIMAS, I myself or should I say many of us find some course stressful, especially the ones with the lecturers kept on posting us questions. We will find that particular two or three hours of lectures so stressful that we dare not move our back and sit still within the hours. We will keep our eye on the notes, staring at the wall or look at the lecturer, hoping to get his or her attention that we are attentive so that we will not be the one that is chosen to be asked. At the same time, we will also keep an eye on our watch and hope that the time will fly so that the lecture will end soon. The lessons were so stressful for us that learning was not fun anymore and it had deviate from its original purpose.
Let’s take another of my experience as an example. I have been ‘The Queen in the classroom’ during my teaching practice. I told my students on the very first day that I entered the class that they should answer every question that I posed to them. Even though they do not know the answer, they should not tell me ‘I don’t know’. Instead, they should try their very best to answer the question. Actually, my intention was to make them learn the language by using it to speak in class as I want an interactive lesson. However, what I got is only silence and it seemed like I am a clown in front of the classroom, talking to the four walls. So, I asked them why they do not talk and they told me that they really do not know the answer, so how could they talked and answer me. They also told me that they found the lesson so stressful when they were forced to talk. Upon hearing that, I was like getting a heavy smack on my face.
Seriously, I don’t mean that questions are useless but to me it is all about the method or the approach that we use in getting the answer. As we all know, language comes in two forms: spoken and written forms. So, what do we need actually? Do we want the answer or we want their spoken language? Do they really need to speak out? Can’t they write? And also, do we want immediate feedback or delayed feedback can do also? Instantneous feedback is not really necessary and sometimes delayed feedback can be good too. Look at this blog. Isn’t it successful? Truly speaking, this is the first time I hear so many voices from our course mates. In lectures, these voices cannot be heard or should I say are not dared to be made heard.
It all comes back to the type of the learners that we have and their needs. We should analyze our learners first and see which way are they more comfortable with and we can go for that. Like what Gatehouse (2001) says, ‘learners employ different learning strategies, use different skills, enter with different schemata, and are motivated by different needs and interests’(p.2). We should not force them as this will intimidate them. Both ESL and ESP teacher can make a start.
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References:
Gatehouse, K. (2001). Key issues in English for Specific Purposes (ESP) Curriculum Development.
Hi…
ReplyDelete“Speak when you’re spoken to”
It sounds so annoying for adult learners. As for me, I don’t need to be ordered to do this and that if I don’t want too. Same goes to this matter, I think we will open our mouth only when we think our idea is relevant to the matter being discussed. In our first discussion why Malaysian learners do not do much talking in class, I pointed that if we talk nothing or rubbish no one will listen and most horrible we may lose people respect on us. Thus, we cannot force someone to talk if he or she don’t want to.
Then, how an ESP teacher can make a difference?
As a learner, I wish the teacher who is called expert in specific area of language, taught me more on practically than theoretically. I think if we do on hand of what we learnt it is much more interesting and captivating rather than just read, read, read, and listen to the lectures. What I mean interesting here is we can do what we learnt and the practical activities for sure much more interesting as it may involved two or more students. Thus, the students will speak on their own without being asked as they need to practice what they have learnt in class. Reflecting my teaching practice, when teaching the modal verbs, the students enjoying learning the topic by doing conversation using the modal verbs in front of the class rather than teaching them the theory only. Then, when they do mistakes, as a teacher we correct them. Interestingly, doing this activity I realized that none of them feeling shy because they know they applying what they learnt and making mistakes doesn’t mean stupid because in a learning process doesn’t mean you will get everything right and perfect at the first hand. So, a teacher may take different alternatives to encourage and not forcing the students to talk.
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In my opinion, ESP teachers can make a difference if they (always) in discussion and negotiation with the learners in the teaching and learning process. With this approach, teacher plays a role as a facilitator who monitors and guides the learners’ direction in the learning. Take for example, the learners are given opportunity to tell the teacher about the topic they want to learn, how they want to learn and with whom they want to learn. Then, the teachers should consider learners’ opinions in planning their teaching materials and the lesson. As learners choose their own topics for the classroom activities and work together with their group members, it makes the course/lesson become less structured, reduces their stress and, consequently, they willing to participate actively in the course. Needless to say, learners are responsible for their own learning - what is relevant to them, way or pace they learn best, environment or people they comfortable to work with. As a return, they gain satisfaction in their learning as it complements their motivation, interests, attitude etc and they view the course/lesson as relevant and useful for them.
ReplyDeleteThe Malaysian students are being quiet in the class because of afraid of getting the wrong answers. They are reluctant to respond unless they are being called or remain silent although given priority to speak out. This is the exact scenario describing Malaysian students nowadays. ESP teachers can make a difference by “creating a relaxed and welcoming atmosphere” (Rosen & Sasser, 1998). I think to encourage students to speak out, ESP teacher should wisely correct their answers without offending and blaming students. Avoid blaming students too if students unable to clarify the points that just have been taught a moment ago. ESP teachers can encourage students to free to ask for clarification to increase their understanding. I think this will make a difference for Malaysian classroom context.
ReplyDeleteRosen, N. G. & Sasser, L. (1998). Sheltered English: Modifying content delivery for second language learners. 35-43
The Malaysian students are being quiet in the class because of afraid of getting the wrong answers. They are reluctant to respond unless they are being called or remain silent although given priority to speak out. This is the exact scenario describing Malaysian students nowadays. ESP teachers can make a difference by “creating a relaxed and welcoming atmosphere” (Rosen & Sasser, 1998). I think to encourage students to speak out, ESP teacher should wisely correct their answers without offending and blaming students. Avoid blaming students too if students unable to clarify the points that just have been taught a moment ago. ESP teachers can encourage students to free to ask for clarification to increase their understanding. I think this will make a difference for Malaysian classroom context.
ReplyDeleteRosen, N. G. & Sasser, L. (1998). Sheltered English: Modifying content delivery for second language learners. 35-43
Chieng Yen Yong 13871
Ithink the teacher can make a difference by develop a course that match the learners need in their discipline since there are demand of certain language skills. Well, it is not easy for the teacher to take charge of it solely but with the appropriate content, the course is easy to be adapted by the learners. Beside that the teacher should bear in mind that it is important to have some background on the learners’. By having some knowledge on them the gap can be narrowed, thus the feeling of fear, shy and diffidence can be reduced and encourage them to participate in class.i agree with what Ross's said, learners are responsible for their own learning - what is relevant to them, way or pace they learn best, environment or people they comfortable with.
ReplyDeleteI think ESP teacher can make a difference by avoiding being too ambitious. Start small first and realize the context they are in. Wait…we are talking about Malaysia right? Sometimes teacher is so overwhelmed with their knowledge or experience especially when they have been abroad and try to impose or introduce many changes without realizing that changes cannot be achieved with a blink of eye or whether the idea that they want to start suit the context or not. It’s not wrong to change, but don’t scare the students or make them wondering or shock. If teacher want to change, explain to the students why they should change too, and make them understand the situation in Malaysia. I don’t give a direct suggestion here, but I take a stand of being reflective about this-think back. I agree with sky kai that teacher should create a relax atmosphere to study. Yap, without being too ambitious, the teacher can appear less ‘showing off’ their knowledge by not blaming the students when they give wrong answer or whatsoever.
ReplyDeleteTwo issues need to explained here.
ReplyDeleteQuestions:
1)if you only speak when you were spoken to, and the other person always waited for you to begin, you see nobody would ever say anything, and
2) how can ESP teachers make a difference?
In workplace settings, it might not always be the best idea to wait for one's turn and remain quiet. This is not healthy for the establishment. When you keep quiet, you will be viewed as either unproductive or lacking in knowledge. So, you loose out in many areas such as responsibilities, promotion etc. Remember, there is a recession going on and employees can be easily replaced. That is why we need to get learners to speak up,discuss and refute another individual's opinion confidently (in terms of language and subject matter knowledge). So, avoid categorizing anyone who provides a valid argument as trying to show off.
As for how ESP teachers can make a difference, I am happy that some of you talked about learner needs, and how the teacher can help address their needs.That is what I am looking for in terms of maturity.
Be objective and avoid this teacher "bashing" attitude because it is not going to help anyone. Leave your poor learner, bad teacher baggage behind and travel light. That will help you discover new knowledge.
I think it is time we moved on to the next topic. So, move on. By the way, welcome back.
By the way, I would like to highlight some of the better comments for this week. Congratulations to the following students:
ReplyDeleteEsther
Jasmine
Marshinda Jong
Jason
Norasma
Nik Zari
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ReplyDeleteThere is ample evidence of the difficulty of creating a communicative environment in the classroom. Many factors conspire against it- as being listed by Dr. Shanti. So, how can ESP teachers make a difference? I agree with Tan’s opinion on to get students to speak out is by modifying their teaching. As teachers, I believe that we all experience a sense of satisfaction when we find exactly the right strategy for conveying a difficult concept. ESP teachers should learn how to modify the delivery of content material to make concepts accessible and comprehensible for their students. Of course, in achieving this goal, it requires both knowledge and understanding; meaning that in addition to knowing their students well, ESP teachers need a repertoire of effective second language strategies and a secure understanding of their content areas. Perhaps ESP teachers can start off by modifying their speech. They can slow their pace at which they speak or they can even control their use of slang as well as the length of their sentences. Again, all the suggested instructional strategies should be deemed appropriate for the students’ immediate needs.
ReplyDeleteBesides, I like the cooperative and collaborative methods as being suggested by Hii YC in getting students to speak out. Peer group interactions encourage student interaction and provide further scaffolding (Rosen and Sasser, 1998). Students can see how they can use the target language to unlock the meaning of content lessons. Moreover, students often benefit from the affective climate of a group; freed from the presence of a teacher (correct me if I’m wrong). In Malaysian schools, however, opportunities for this kind of shared experience are rare, which in turn limits students’ opportunity to develop common systems of understanding with their peers. Maybe that’s why students feel intimidated when they are asked to voice out their viewpoints since they are afraid that their classmates will mock or make fun of them. The element of trust and respect is absent at the first place. If ESP teachers want their students to be more vocal, I think that they should create a relaxed and trustworthy atmosphere beforehand.
Reference
Rosen, N. & Sasser, L. (1998) Sheltered English: Modifying Content Delivery for Second Language Learners. Multiple Perspectives on Content-Based Instruction.
Wong Siew Fang (15520)
how can ESP teachers make a difference?
ReplyDeleteBoth teachers and students should make a difference. The teachers should have the ability and the attitude to teach the students the specific language skills and. the teachers should know what to teach and what is appropriate to his/her students.At the same time, teachers should be more aware of their students needs and interest in the learning of the language. On students' side, the students should be more specific on what they need to learn in the class.They should know their responsibility to take part in the classroom. It does not matter if they are low proficiency students.In short, the attitude of the teachers and the right approach to teach the specific skills to the students will provide the students to learn in a relaxed atmosphere.
How can ESP teachers make a difference? Well, I guess it all comes to the attitude of the individual teachers whether or not we want to make a difference or being indifference. If ESP teachers WANT to make a difference, they CAN make the difference. But if they DO NOT WANT to make a difference, there won't be any difference at all. As the Malay saying goes, "Tepuk dada, tanyalah selera". ESP teachers should think of changing their negative attitudes towards the teaching of ESP so that they can make all the differences.
ReplyDeleteEsp teacher should be more creative in making the course interactive so that it could motivate the learner to learn and actively participate in the learning activities.Apart from that, the ESP teacher should also bring in the real life element so that the students could understand the importance of learning it and feel worth to learn it.
ReplyDeletePersonally, when i found out the courses that i enrol in will help me in the future, i will try my best to cope with it and i always hope it could be more actractive then other courses.
How can ESP teachers make a difference?
ReplyDeleteGenerally, Being a Teacher is similar to driving a bus, bringing your passengers to a destination where they aimed to head for. Every passenger has individual and a specific destination to go. therefore, the bus driver has to know that.
Teaching ESP involves bringing learners to gain a specific content knowledge in the language.
First, i think the goal/ destination must be clear enough for them. Second, go for the goal by employing a variety of teaching methods or teaching techniques in their instructions. Make the classroom more vibrant, guide them well, make them feel comfortable and participating in the instructions.
Third, i think it has to do with the teacher's philosophy for teaching. To what extent does s/he wants to make a change in the classroom.
How can ESP teachers make a difference?
ReplyDeleteThe most important is the attitude and perception of the ESP teachers towards their goals and aims in teaching ESP. For example ESP teacher needs to be committed and creative on what the strategy we need to apply to motivate learners in ESP classroom, tailor course content and pedagogy to the needs of students in the course.. The strategy is needed to fulfill the learner’s needs and interest in ESP classroom. The strategy must create a positive impact towards learners needs to achieve the effectiveness of the ESP courses in classroom.
How can ESP teachers make a difference?
ReplyDeleteThe most important is the attitude and perception of the ESP teachers towards their goals and aims in teaching ESP. For example ESP teacher needs to be committed and creative on what the strategy we need to apply to motivate learners in ESP classroom, tailor course content and pedagogy to the needs of students in the course.. The strategy is needed to fulfill the learner’s needs and interest in ESP classroom. The strategy must create a positive impact towards learners needs to achieve the effectiveness of the ESP courses.
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ReplyDeleteThere will never have communication or discussion going on if you have to wait for one another to start the speaking. Just speak out whenever one has point to say. If you keep on waiting,nothing gonna happen.
ReplyDeleteESP teachers must know/aware what topic that can interest the students to speak out. Teachers must always up-to-date so that they can relate what they are going to teach with what might interest the students to voice out their views. Students will not speak in class if they do not know the content that they should say. And another thing is teachers must make sure that students feel comfortable in their class. If not, this will even stop them to speak.